GMF — Help Improve the Management of Groups

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Tue, 30 Dec 2025 11:00:09 -0800

Actually, I later played with clicking on the email-address part of the Unsubscribe field. That does send an email.

I was not at the time using the same browser for two different groups.io groups, though I have done so in the past. Rather, I have never tried a google signin with the samadamsthedog email address. It is simply another mail account that I view in my default browser. It seems odd that clicking "unsubscribe" in an email should take you to a web page where an unsubscription would be done for different user than the ID associated with the email account. IMO, it would be much clearer and less error-prone for an email on behalf of the current email account to just be sent when you click Unsubscribe.

I unsubscribe to lots of junk-mail senders by clicking on "unsubscribe" in the email I've received. Usually, that's all I have to do. Sometimes it takes me to a web site, though, but that's a royal pain.

-P

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

christos@... (Christos Psarras) — Tue, 30 Dec 2025 03:06:38 -0800

Peter,

I still don't know why clicking Unsubscribe from the samadamsthedog email account brought me to a web site, rather than just invoke email to the +unsubscribe address of the group,

This is how most -if not all- sites work, they don't bring up an email message to send in to do stuff, you are online and onsite so things will get done that way using the currently-logged in user. If instead you had manually sent an email from the test account to the +unsubscribe address then it would have worked fine, but the real problem was using two accounts in the same browser.

...My samadamsthedog (gmail test account) was a tab in a Chrome browser. I was running into the chrome browser with my shenkin@... google account, ...

As you found out, do not operate two different Groups.io accounts in the same browser session as you will invariably run into problems like this. Either use a different browser for the test account, use the Chrome Profiles functionality, or install a third-party extension/add-on for Chrome like SessionBox or Multi-Account Login Containers for Chrome.

Cheers,
Christos

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Mon, 29 Dec 2025 07:38:09 -0800

Yes, I'm a backup owner for a very active group for just that exigency. But peter-shenkin-gigs exists only to publicize my own gigs, so if I'm gone it is fitting and proper that it should die with me.

If I become famous enough to be impersonated, I will ask one of the wannabes to play backup. However, that outcome is unlikely. Very!

I do have a residual mindspring account, so maybe I'll add that, too.

Thanks,

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

malcolm.austen@... (Malcolm Austen) — Mon, 29 Dec 2025 05:20:28 -0800

Well, to take a simple example, if you go over quota or otherwise fall out of favour with gmail then you could lose access to both of your owner accounts. Ideally your second owner will be another person who can run the group if you are incapacitated.

Malcolm.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

lmcdavid@... (Larry McDavid) — Mon, 29 Dec 2025 02:26:59 -0800

It is worthwhile to remember that email providers sometimes just go away or have problems. You should have multiple Owners and it is wise to use different email providers.

Avoid ISP email providers because you sometimes need to chang your ISP.

If you use a web host email provider, you can change your web host but keep the same domain-name email address.

Having several Group Owners is a very important first step to Group longevity.

Larry McDavid

Samsung Galaxy S10

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 23:01:53 -0800

Hi, Sarah,

I now have two owners, Shenkin and Shenkin+music, both at Gmail. They have different passwords.

I asked John M. why it's better to use separate email providers so now please tell me why it's better to avoid name overlap. Can you cite an example where name overlap has been or could be problematic?

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 22:44:56 -0800

Why two independent emails providers? (In this situation, the email provider wasn't part of the problem. In fact, the emails sent to +owner helped diagnose the problem, but any provider's email would have given the same information.)

So can you give an example where this would have been useful? I.e., where an email provider was part of a problem requiring a switch to a backup owner?

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

sarahseventytwo@... (Sarah Shapiro) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 22:44:48 -0800

Since it is easy and free to obtain another gmail address, I urge you to do that, using something other than shenkin for the name, and make that new address a co-owner or at least a moderator.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

lmcdavid@... (Larry McDavid) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 22:03:35 -0800

This has been painful to follow. I hope the lesson learned is to always have at least two Group memberships as Owner for *every* Group you own.

A further thought is to use Owner email addresses from different, completely independent, email providers.

Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)

On 12/28/2025 8:31 PM, Peter S. Shenkin via groups.io wrote:

Malcolm, you turned out to be right.
I was able to create a login for shenkin+music@... <mailto:shenkin%2Bmusic@...> after all, and logging in that way, I am indeed the owner.

...

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 20:45:26 -0800

Malcolm, you turned out to be right.

I was able to create a login for shenkin+music@... after all, and logging in that way, I am indeed the owner.

I have to say that I am sure that I never set up an account with that name before, and indeed there was no entry for one in my password vault. I always logged in as shenkin@... and had owner privileges when I did.

But however this may be, I will now make shenkin@... an additional owner and this should enable me to (1) use that single login for all my groups and (2) have a backup in case of disaster.

Thank you for your advice. I'll cancel my support ticket.

-P.

On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 5:14 PM Malcolm Austen via groups.io <malcolm.austen=weald.org.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

malcolm.austen@... (Malcolm Austen) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 14:14:49 -0800

On 28 December 2025 18:55:02 (+00:00), Peter S. Shenkin via groups.io wrote:

Email sent to me as owner goes to "shenkin+music@...".

However, I have never had a gmail account (at any site) that includes +music (or +anything_else) and always logged into groups.io simply as shenkin@.

Based upon your suggestion I thought I'd try starting a new groups.io account as "shenkin+music" and seeing what happens if I log in that way. However, when I try to do so, groups.io tells me that the account shenkin@... is already in use.

That's not what I see, groups.io will allow me to create an account using my present address with +xyz just before the @

In my opinion, that is correct behavior, since +anything_else is ignored by convention in email addresses.

In some circles, yes, but often this has historically (like ignoring punctuation inside the local name part) just been something done by gmail or another of the 'big boys' which has been taken as definitive rather than some particular system's aberation.

However, it may be that the reason I still receive emails as owner is that the part of groups.io that sends email doesn't realize that shenkin@... is no longer an owner. And someplace along the line, this might also be the reason that groups.io allowed me to unsubscribe myself, because somewhere it thinks shenkin+music is actually the owner.

No, I don't think there is a bug in groups.io, I think you are being misled by gmail. I have just caused a forgotten password email to be sent to <shenkin+music@...> so groups.io believes that to be a separate account to you main one that was removed from the group.

Back to my earlier suggestion - log in with <shenkin+music@...> and then reinstate you previous owner account.

HNY, Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen -- malcolm.austen@...

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

kcameron@... (Ken Cameron) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 11:44:50 -0800

Peter,

Did you log out of your computer and do a complete restart? Just closing the browser and then reopening it should be enough, but going the full route of cleaning out any stuck bits might help. My guess is a browser cookie that’s confusing what you get displayed. Unrelated to groups.io, I’ve seen this sort of confusion before when something was retained by a browser that shouldn’t have been kept.

Yes the even longer shot was purging all the cookies in the browser. But a simpler step would be opening a different browser in anonymous mode with no catching and log into groups.io from that. It might show the difference.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team

www.jmri.org

www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org

www.cnymod.com

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 11:44:27 -0800

Hi, Tom,

I did log out of groups.io then log back in from an incognito window with no difference in anything that I could detect. I can't think of a reason that rebooting my own computer would change anything.

I think my recent response to Malcolm throws light on what might be going on at groups.io causing what appears to be a bug.

I did notice (got an owner's/moderator's announcement) that you joined my group shortly after I posted. Actually, I thought your email prefix, "computerhusky" was suspicious. Obviously it had nothing to do with the cause of the problem, but I thought maybe you were a bot monitoring GMF and wishing to do some sort of mischief. But I am gratified to learn that you are a real person trying to help, to thanks! 🙂

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 11:43:52 -0800

Good thought, Malcolm.

Email sent to me as owner goes to "shenkin+music@...".

However, I have never had a gmail account (at any site) that includes +music (or +anything_else) and always logged into groups.io simply as shenkin@.

Based upon your suggestion I thought I'd try starting a new groups.io account as "shenkin+music" and seeing what happens if I log in that way. However, when I try to do so, groups.io tells me that the account shenkin@... is already in use.

In my opinion, that is correct behavior, since +anything_else is ignored by convention in email addresses.

However, it may be that the reason I still receive emails as owner is that the part of groups.io that sends email doesn't realize that shenkin@... is no longer an owner. And someplace along the line, this might also be the reason that groups.io allowed me to unsubscribe myself, because somewhere it thinks shenkin+music is actually the owner.

I'll add this observation to my support ticket.

-P.

On Sun, Dec 28, 2025 at 1:07 PM Malcolm Austen via groups.io <malcolm.austen=weald.org.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

computerhusky@... (Thomas Gruber) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 10:39:47 -0800

Peter,

sorry, this may be a stupid question: have you tried logging out from groups.io, then waiting a few minutes, maybe reboot your computer, then logging in again?
Then try if you are owner again?

thomas

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 10:07:38 -0800

Hi, Otto,

If I send email from my test account to peter-shenkin-gigs+owner, the email is sent to shenkin@..., the account I used as owner when I signed up.

I also receive a notification when someone subscribes. Such notifications are usually sent only to owners and moderators.

So some part of groups.io still recognizes me as the owner.

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

malcolm.austen@... (Malcolm Austen) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 10:07:20 -0800

On 28 December 2025 17:44:23 (+00:00), Peter S. Shenkin via groups.io wrote:

For the record, email from my test account to peter-shenkin-gigs+owner still gets sent to me and I also received a new subscriber notification since the problem occurred. So some part of groups.io still thinks I am the owner or at least a moderator of the group.

You need to look closely at the address (of yours) that +owner email was sent to. That must still be a group owner and you will be able to log in with that address as you'll receive the "I've forgotten my password" email.

Happy New Year, Malcolm.

--
Malcolm Austen -- malcolm.austen@...

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

shenkin@... (Peter S. Shenkin) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 09:55:45 -0800

Thanks for the suggestion, Derek. I have now written to support@.

For the record, email from my test account to peter-shenkin-gigs+owner still gets sent to me and I also received a new subscriber notification since the problem occurred. So some part of groups.io still thinks I am the owner or at least a moderator of the group.

I will summarize to GMF the outcome of my support inquiry.

-P.

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

otto.nikolaus@... (Otto Nikolaus) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 09:55:45 -0800

Can you Contact Group Owner, using the link either at the foot of any group message or on the group Home page and see if anyone replies?

Otto

Re: Help -- I just unsubscribed from my own group!

txpigeon@... (Duane) — Sun, 28 Dec 2025 08:42:53 -0800

On Sat, Dec 27, 2025 at 04:22 PM, Peter S. Shenkin wrote:

But if you have a way of looking and seeing who the current owner is

Mark is the only one that can see the inner workings of the site.

Duane

Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual that are located in the Help Center.